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revelation and hope
Time is always moving. Things are always changing. Always flowing. 

The same could be said about my spiritual path.

I speak to both the new and old members (though I am rather new myself) about the will of fire. Yes, the will of fire.

TO the old members: Has my view on this topic changed: Yes.  Has my level of spiritual maturity caused this change: Yes. Is there correlation between my spiritual maturity and knowledge I have gained from reading on this site: Yes. 

TO the new members: When I came to this site, I claimed my greatest spiritual gift was the will of fire. And then went on to post a litter of threads about it. It has been awhile since I have returned to talk about it though.

Before I begin, thank you to those who read. I hope i can give some insight into myself and the will of fire.

If we take a look at the spiritual body. It is composed of 4 main parts. The physical body (earth), the mind (air), the spirit (fire), and the energy of love (water).  Each part has a corresponding associated element. Each of the parts of the spiritual body behaves in a manner similar to that of its corresponding element. Therefore, spiritual wisdom and knowledge can be gained from dedicating time to understanding and surrounding your self with the elements in their physical forms on earth. 

Like the Chinese philosophy of Ying Yang, all these energies, though different, cannot exist with out each other and naturally give rise to one another. Balancing this energies within the individual is necessary. All the answers are within. 

The spirit, the fire Chakra, the soul, the will of fire. This is the most powerful spiritual energy within. When this energy is over balanced, uncontrolled, it can turn to anger, ambition, overconfidence/pride. when it is under balanced, dim, it can result in lack of will, lack of motivation, lack of confidence. The physical element comparison, is that of a terrible wildfire in a forest and a dim fire that blows out in a cold winter wind. 

When I first came to this site, I had dreams of changing the world, dreams of being a person who would bring about great change. I associated this to my will of fire. I was perhaps a bit ambitious with my dreams, I did not truly understand a lot of things. I see now the truth of what my will of fire is. 

I spoke of the consequences due to imbalances of fire energy within. But what happens when the energy of fire is balanced within? A strong spirit is a light. A light that shines that others can feel. The ability to never give up. On your friends or on your dreams. A strong consistent flame, that gives warmth to all those around it and acts as a beacon in the dark. The will of God. The holy spirit.
To love. To help and to sacrifice for others. If this is your will, then a balanced will of fire will give you the energy, no matter what, to achieve it. Mother Teresa. The will of fire is within us all. This is how to have the energy and drive to spread the light. Through love, sacrifice, and leading the way for others and the next generation. It is not easy to walk this path. But the light will guide those who strive for this path.

This is my will of fire. It is also what I have come to understand as a fundamental truth of the spirit. We are all of one spirit. This is the purpose (To love. To help and to sacrifice for others.) If the purpose of the individual is aligned with that of the spirit of the universal consciousness (GOD, the light, the oneness). then you WILL have the energy to walk this path.

Hope? why does he put hope in the subject? 

Because a strong spirit gives others hope,

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                              for opening your heart to us.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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  • Uzumaki_Jesse
  Thank you Jesse for your post..   I'd like to Share some Alchemical ideas about Fire... it's different symbolic and physical and spiritual types and Uses from Dennis William Hauck...

[Image: fire_pit.png]

Four Grades of Fire
The alchemists recognized four grades of Fire with which they could work. Generally, these were classified from the grossest (most material) to the subtlest (most spiritual). The grades were called Elementary Fire, Secret Fire, Central Fire, and Celestial Fire. Elementary Fire is the fire of the created elements and is what we think of as fire in our everyday lives. Secret Fire exists within the consciousness of the alchemist. Central Fire is the fire of creation, the embedded Word of God, in all manifested objects. Celestial Fire is the brilliance of the Mind of God itself.

Elementary Fire
“The Elementary Fire, which is the fire of our stoves,” wrote alchemist/monk Antoine-Joseph Pernety in 1758, “is impure, thick and burning. This fire is sharp and corrosive, ill-smelling, and is known through the senses. It has for its abode the surface of the earth and our atmosphere and is destructive; it wounds the senses, it burns, it digests, concocts, and produces nothing. It is external [to the alchemist] and separating.”

Celestial Fire
According to Pernety, the purest grade of fire was the white Celestial Fire, or the fiery power of God’s will. He described it thus: “The Celestial Fire is very pure, simple and not burning in itself. It has for its sphere the ethereal region, whence it makes itself known even to us. Celestial Fire shines without burning and is without color and odor, though it is sensibly exhaled. It is gentle and known only by its operations.”

Central Fire
Between these two extremes of Elementary Fire and Celestial Fire, the alchemists postulated two other gradients. One was the Central Fire hidden within matter at its very center, which is God’s Will in matter, or the One Mind acting on the One Thing. According to Pernety: “The Celestial Fire passes into the nature of the Central Fire; it becomes internal, engendering in matter. Though the Central Fire [within matter] is pure in itself, it is mixed and tempered. It engenders and enlightens sometimes without burning, and burns sometimes without giving any light. It is invisible and therefore known only by its qualities. The Central Fire is lodged in the center of matter; it is tenacious and innate in matter; it is digesting, maturing, neither warm nor burning to the touch.”

Secret Fire
There is yet a fourth grade of fire, and it was the primary fire with which the spiritual alchemists worked. They called it their “Secret Fire,” and they went to great pains to disguise its true nature. “The fire of the sun could not be this Secret Fire,” Pernety notes. “It is interrupted, unequal, and does not penetrate. The fire of our stoves, which hinders the union of the miscibles and consumes the bond of the constituent parts, could not be the one. The Central Fire, which is innate in matter, cannot be that Secret Fire so much praised, which causes the corruption of metallic germs, because the heat which engenders is internal and innate in matter, and that which corrupts is external and foreign to matter.”

So, the Secret Fire is “external” to matter yet is somehow able to change it or cause its “corruption.” Actually, the Secret Fire is part of the life force of the alchemist himself. Says Pernety: “This heat is very different within the generation of the individuals of the three kingdoms; the animal possesses it in a much higher degree than the plant.”

Secret Fire in the Body
In his book Alchemy, Franz Hartmann states that we all carry this Secret Fire within us. “In many theosophical works,” he writes, “the Secret Fire of the alchemists is described as kundalini, the ‘serpentine’ working power in the body of the acetic. It is an electric, fiery, occult or Fohatic power, the great pristine form which underlies all organic and inorganic matter. H.P. Blavatsky calls it ‘an electro-spiritual force, a creative power which, when aroused into action, can as easily destroy as it can create.’ This cautionary point is the reason why the secrets of alchemy can not be divulged to the idle-minded or curious, and why only those who have gained the power to control their own self may be told how that power can be aroused in man.”

Powers of the Secret Fire
The identity of the Secret Fire was known and concealed ever since the invention of writing in the Thothian epoch. “In allegories and fables,” remarks Pernety, “the philosophers have given to this Secret Fire the names sword, lance, arrows, javelin, etc. It is the Fire which Prometheus stole from heaven, which Vulcan employed to form the thunderbolts of Jupiter, and the golden throne of Zeus.”
The Secret Fire is therefore “thought” in its highest sense — equivalent to the god Thoth, the first alchemist who speaks only the true Word, which through intonation and vibration acts on matter to create new incarnations of Mind. To some extent, this divine power is shared by humans in the power of inspired thought and imagination. This fact was one of the greatest secrets of the alchemists.
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.  Don’t go back to sleep ...  People are going back and forth across the doorsill where the two worlds touch. The door is round and open.   Don’t go back to sleep ... Rumi
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Thank you MBS 


I appreciate the Alchemical ideas that you put together . I am not well versed in this area. I think it adds very nicely to the discussion of fire. 

I usually imagine fire to be of one form and also I feel the elementary fire description is a bit harsh. But I like the idea of categorizing fire in its different "forms". thank you for your addition.
For further reading on the subject of FIRE go to krya's threads

The 4 elements of the nature


What yoou might call a 'burning topic' at the moment.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
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Thank you Jesse for the warm message.
Warm did I say? yes. Because there are great emotions in what you said, warm ones. Which almost makes you want to stand up and do something to help the world in any way possible. And it is a contagious kind of feeling. 

In my twenties I had that habit of wearing heavy cloths, even when it was hot (temperature). One reason is because I was skinny so I put on some extra cloths to avoid attracting attentions on my skinny state Smile, second reason was because I felt more comfortable covered as if I always felt cold. So I usually didn't perspire under my heavy cloths. Then I noticed my work colleagues in many occasions said to me that I made them feel hotter with those heavy cloths I wore :Smile :Smile  , Different friends at work said so to me, so I believed them :Smile , I made a conclusion out of it: Our apparent temperature affects others. When people feel that you are warm, they also start getting warm. Temperature is a property of fire for which its heat wants to make you stand up, move, and even undress.

The will is an energy. Astrologist would call it the "force of Mars, the red energy". Without which we cannot accomplish much of our goals, our ideas, our dreams. I would associate the will of fire to the heat of fire. Yes to this specific part of fire which makes you jump and move. A very important aspect of fire to manifest within and around us. The light of fire may let you see things within and outside, but how much of what light suggests can be done depends on how much heat one has.

 In my world, I see many students of esoteric schools getting light from the world fires ( modern teachers and spiritual masters), but in most cases, the light they get doesn't always come with enough heat to make them change, why? because it's one thing to read the fire in books and another to learn by its side. By the fire side, we are affected by its behaviors, we get just as hot as the fire. 
You may give a wonderful spiritual advise to someone, tell them for example that they should "Undress their lower nature", meaning to remove their impurities. They will hear, they find it beautiful, and enlightening phrase, but then guess what? Nothing happens, they now know but they don't change. It is not just because they might not know how to do it, but mostly because they don't feel warm enough to do. Then try a different way. Instead of keeping telling them, rather you become hot, very hot, and ask them to stay by your side. Now they start undressing themselves (removing their impurities). Smile

So I thank you for the warm post. We surely need more of those. I would even encourage whoever feels warm at home, to come here and express their warm feeling. All that hot temperature will end up helping us all.

Love and light to all.
A meditation is a trip to the space between the sun and earth. Where there is No days no nights, no noise, no rain, no wind, no earth force of attraction, but just peace, just light, just silence, just freedom. Would you Join me in this trip?

M. Krya
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I strongly resonate with the subject of discussion in this thread. 

I associate the allegorical concepts of fire/spirit discussed here with knowledge and will (NB: will can also be thought of as a driving force, a form of love that makes you move, be it positive or negative direction, for meaningful or meaningless purpose). Knowledge is what can be called the light and will is that which can be called the heat. These two overlapping energies (of knowledge and will, light and heat) must be balanced if they are to act in a proper way. Too much of one at the detriment of the other can cause many dysfunctions.

Consider for instance a vehicle such as a car. On one hand, it is quite impractical to drive a car without a working engine (i.e. its will) because then you will have to spend a considerable amount of time and effort in pushing it in order for it to move. On the other hand, it is extremely dangerous and hazardous to drive a car at night (i.e. in a world full of ignorance, lies and deception) without headlights (i.e. knowledge). So both the headlights and the engine are important in order to drive a car safely and easily. Similarly, as far as our physical and spiritual lives are concerned, we need both the knowledge as well as the will in order to make any meaningful progress.  

So briefly speaking, it is one thing to know the path, and it is another to walk the path. Often, many people (myself included) have found themselves with the challenge of having accumulated too much scientific/spiritual/esoteric knowledge but actually having little time or will to practice all that knowledge acquired. This situation creates all kinds of blockages and constipation in the emotional, mental and spiritual bodies of the overly theoretical learners involved.

The amount of knowledge that spiritual seekers in ancient monasteries and other esoteric schools could acquire over many decades of intense learning/training and persistent practices can nowadays be found in a simple click of a computer mouse. Our current world generation has the privilege of having a seemingly endless stream of knowledge at its disposal. But unfortunately the hectic modern lifestyle leaves very few time to put it into practice due to the many distractions around as well as to the speed and ease in which this knowledge is acquired. Keeping in mind that anything that is easily acquired has little value to the one receiving it, we can see where all this situation is leading us.

What I have come to personally realize is that it is no longer necessary for me to accumulate too much knowledge that I don’t need or that I don’t have time to put into practice. Which is why I’m not that much involved in areas of study such as astrology, alchemy or magic for instance, although I may have a general idea of the working principles behind those studies. I find it important to first digest and consolidate on what I have learned thus far (which is not insufficient as far as I’m concerned), and then progressively delve into other domain of esoteric studies.

The universe is not in a hurry, so neither should we. Let’s do what we can, when we can and how we can, while doing it as best as possible. The limit of knowledge is the sky, meaning it goes as far as your imagination can reach. And because the imagination, by its very divine nature, has no limit, this indicates that we have whole lifetimes of exciting learnings ahead of us before we reach the epitome of our evolutionary purpose (which is to become gods/Gods).

Thus let’s put our existence here into profit by being more proactive and productive rather than reactive and passive.
Mystery creates wonder. Wonder produces curiosity. Curiosity raises questions. Questions lead to answers.
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Thank you, John.

I endorse your explanation of living in correspondence with what we know without acquiring and accumulating knowledge that we do not put to good use. 
When I am reading something, I sometimes get the feeling that I really don't need to 'learn' this because I already know it. If I reach a situation  where this particular information is needed, then it will surface in my conscious mind.
From present life experiences, I can confirm that it does.

Sorry if that seems a lot of words to explain a simple idea, but it also supports the concept of 'past life experiences.
I am a Spiritual Being having a Human Experience
Thank you all for the insight on heat and will. I feel in the past I too had experience with the radiate heat property and had the will within but lacked advanced spiritual knowledge (Also self-discipline to achieve the knowledge). As you said John_Ly, it is a balance of will and knowledge that is necessary to have the correct functionality. 

This very site acts as a beacon of hope and the light because of the will and effort that has been poured into it. It represents the will of those who created (admins), stick with and never give up (admin, Kyra and John_Ly), teach and learn (all who post), and of course, moderate (MBS) the site. I realized this early on. I acknowledged and respected you all for the will you have shown.
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  • Aceofcups
Thank you again Jesse... I like the process that we heard from a number of people on the subject. 

My deep understanding is that we are all One ultimately but also have different configuration of energy of Souls and Personalities ( at and of the physical. emotional and mental and Spiritual levels of our being) we live with and under different energy patterns ( like Astrology blueprints, Rays etc. etc.seeing and experiencing different aspects that may harmonize more with one of them  then another.  We are all multidimensional and multi-faceted beings.

The idea that we all see things and experiences things the same is part of life's semi-grand Illusion.  Is cause of more arguments, ill-will and wars in world.  

Not all people need or want the same degree of Fire in their life.  Some have greater affinity towards it and what it represents then others.  Same can be said for the other Elements and what they symbolically represent in our psyche.  Air related to Mental facilities and communication, Water with Emotions and Feeling, Earth with the Physical earth and how we work with that quality in our lives.

Fire has to do with Will as you said, and also with drive and desires.  Some people have a greater affinity towards fire then others. Some people just naturally feel and need heat ( physically, emotionally, mentally), others I know feel that they live with to much heat.. etc.  Both are valid for the individual involved.
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.  Don’t go back to sleep ...  People are going back and forth across the doorsill where the two worlds touch. The door is round and open.   Don’t go back to sleep ... Rumi
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